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24 January 2005 @ 11:50 pm
This is why I never had children  
Or ever will.

We have 10 years until the point of no return. After that, global warming will produce worldwide climate change. Even massive cutbacks in emissions after that time will not help.

I'm about at the point where I want to give up electricity and go homestead up in the wilds of northern Ontario. When is it no longer paranoid to say WE ARE KILLING OURSELVES AND EVERYONE ELSE?

I developed anxiety disorder almost 16 years ago. And this was the subject of my panic attacks. I've been attack-free since 2001, thanks to Lexapro, but this news is almost guaranteed to start it up again. What kills me most of all is that I know the US leadership will spend the next four years denying that there is a problem. Clearly the problem is with these scientists, who hate our freedom.

Yeah. We'll love that freedom to bleach our bones in the desert America becomes.

What happens to outrage when it's never heard? What happens when frustration bottles up inside and is never relieved?
 
 
I feel: distresseddistressed
 
 
 
LLL's Heartfelt Wish: Bleachiconmuse_neko on January 25th, 2005 03:21 am (UTC)
I'm with you. I have no desire to bring children into a world like the one we've got. And you're right, I'm sure Dubya will completely ignore the issue. However, maybe the human race has finally outlived it's usefulness and the Earth is ready to reclaim itself. I have no doubt that the planet will weather this eco-disaster as it has untold times in the past, however, the Earth is overdue for a mass extinction and guess who's number is up?

Gee, I'm feeling sunny today.
Maureen Lycaon: white girlmaureenlycaon on January 25th, 2005 04:15 am (UTC)
*sigh* Same here. I have no intention of having children in this fucked-up society. Even if I were to make it to another country before menopause (something that's looking less likely by the day), the future appears to hold little good.

What happens to outrage when it's never heard? What happens when frustration bottles up inside and is never relieved?

The big question, for me. I've . . . taken a very sour attitude over the past few years, as I've accustomed myself to the realization that human beings will probably not come to their senses in time.

More than that is probably better left unsaid.
Mary Lewys: Himlewys on January 25th, 2005 05:38 am (UTC)
Season One of Penn & Teller's Bullshit is out on DVD. Get it. Watch it.

And when Season Two comes out, get that as well.

*snuggles* It's all guess work in a white coat, honey. Science isn't concrete. It's all theories because everything is so hard to predict.

Remember the bumble bee.
Elle: I am desperately seeking helptheletterelle on January 26th, 2005 08:39 am (UTC)
True, yes. But even if they're wrong, and it's twenty or thirty years down the line, it's still A Bad Thing. And I don't know if we'll ever get on the stick until it's too late.

*hugs you*

Oh, and the bumblebee's flight was figured out years ago. :)
Mary Lewysmlewys on January 26th, 2005 12:43 pm (UTC)
I know. But, for all rules, there's always a bumble bee.

A lot can happen in twenty or thirty years. Making yourself nuts only ruins the now. *smoochies* Be happy. Life really is too short.

And hey -- who's to say your kid's not the one to figure this mess out and set things straight, eh?
eaceac on January 25th, 2005 05:57 am (UTC)
I share your sense of horror about this (when I was in middle school we were told we wouldn't last out the century), but as some one above said, scientists are estimating.

I'm going to go on and try to have children anyway while paying attention to the environmental and political things I think important. I can't stop my life altogether because the world might end.
Elle: Spiderweb beautytheletterelle on January 26th, 2005 08:29 am (UTC)
Hi! *hugs you* You found me. :)

I exaggerated a little up there. The sense of horror I feel at the world is only one reason I'm not having children. There are other reasons: they're expensive, the thought of being pregnant horrifies me, and I just plain don't feel the need, so why do it? :)

I'm not stopping my life. I just can't stand what's happening, and I'm glad I won't have descendants to see it.
eaceac on January 26th, 2005 08:33 am (UTC)
I just plain don't feel the need

See, that's a very good reason. ;)

(Anonymous) on January 25th, 2005 10:30 pm (UTC)
Scientists do not hate freedom. Politicians just don't listen to them. The problem lies in the bureacracy, not the science. All you see is what CNN tells you. You don't see the other side. The side that is trying to fix the problem as fast as we can. Sponsored by (wait for it) THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT. The global environmental problems lie in countries like Mexico and Brazil, not America. The U.S. spends BILLIONS on environmental cleanup. Just ask the contractors who vie for the remediation contracts. The U.S. EPA, as flawed as they are is still responsible for most of the cleanup in the private sector. The states also have their own agencies. Do yourself a favor and research the scientific side. Don't just listen to the media or those with an agenda. I know it must be difficult to seek out the truth living in an emotional cesspool like D.C. (aka ROME), but it IS out there (cue creepy X-Files music). When you get the truth from all sides, the view becomes clearer.
lanternlad
Elle: Red right handtheletterelle on January 26th, 2005 08:25 am (UTC)
Hello, Chris. :)

Scientists do not hate freedom. Politicians just don't listen to them. The problem lies in the bureacracy, not the science.

I absolutely agree with you. That was a sarcastic line, meant to reference the common accusation that anyone who disagrees with the administration party line obviously hates freedom.

I'd disagree with you on the bureacracy point, since I believe the problem comes from the administration being in the pockets of the oil and coal companies.

All you see is what CNN tells you.

*eyeroll* I see much more than that. This discussion has a hell of a lot more information than CNN's little article, including weigh-ins from various scientists. This one supplements it. And lest you think that this site only hosts a collection of doomsayers, there's this discussion.

You don't see the other side. The side that is trying to fix the problem as fast as we can. Sponsored by (wait for it) THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT.

And that would be whom, exactly? Who is weaning the US off fossil fuels and onto renewable resources? How much is the government spending on this, and what is that percentage of funding compared to what's spent to subsidize the coal and oil industries?

The global environmental problems lie in countries like Mexico and Brazil, not America.

Interesting. Brazil is ranked #11 on the recently released Environmental Sustainability Index. The US is ranked #45. Where did you get the Brazil information? Mexico is rated #95, which is indeed below the US, but it's a fallacy to say that because there are worse countries than the US, the US is not part of the problem.

The U.S. spends BILLIONS on environmental cleanup. Just ask the contractors who vie for the remediation contracts. The U.S. EPA, as flawed as they are is still responsible for most of the cleanup in the private sector. The states also have their own agencies.

First of all, you're conflating toxic cleanup (Superfund sites, yes?) with atmospheric CO2 pollution. Superfund sites are a problem, absolutely, but they are not contributing to global climate change like greenhouse gases are.

Do yourself a favor and research the scientific side. Don't just listen to the media or those with an agenda.

How about you do me a favor and don't patronize me, hm?

I know it must be difficult to seek out the truth living in an emotional cesspool like D.C. (aka ROME), but it IS out there (cue creepy X-Files music). When you get the truth from all sides, the view becomes clearer.

I'd like you to read through all the discussions I've linked to, and then tell me I'm not seeking the truth from all sides. Trust me, if I could believe that everything is all right, I would have a much happier life. Unfortunately, I look at the science, and I do not trust that somehow things will just be okay because I want them to be.
(Anonymous) on January 26th, 2005 09:27 am (UTC)
Sorry, I didn't mean to sound patronizing, but I deal with the scientific side of the environmental world on a daily basis. (It's called Being Married to An Environmental Scientist - I pick up stuff - kind of like a second-hand smoker :)) Hell, my wife is one of the country's leading soil experts (there's even an EPA procedure based on her research). It's true that if you find one expert who says "A", you'll find another one who says "B". Polls and lists and such will always reflect that. You work for environmental lawyers. I work for environmental scientists. Never the twain shall meet. I don't get caught up in politics or any of that B.S. But what I've told you is true. It takes YEARS for sitting government policy to go into effect (trust me on this one - 6 years in the Aerospace industry gives one a clear insight into just how slowly our government works - don't believe me? The space shuttle is still using 1970's technology, and NASA is looking for replacement parts on Ebay - pretty scary) I'm not saying that everything is alright, but we ARE working on it, and our government is footing most of the bill. These initiatives were started in the Carter administration, and have only been fully underway for about ten years or so. Who makes up these indexes? Not scientists. Pollsters or politicans or pundits. (oh my!) Not scientists. True scientists stay the hell out out of it. (Professors don't count - in the scientific world, if you're teaching it, it's because you can't do it) I know many environmental scientists, including professors, and NONE of them take any of that crap seriously. To them, it's like reading the Enquirer. If you like, I can give you contact information to some REAL environmental scientists who will give you unpartisan truth about how the environment is REALLY taken care of. I'm sure if you came across a poll or study about how librarians do their job, you'd have issues with it. (You'll never see one, because no one cares :)) I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I know how much the environmental issues have always bothered you, and if you could see what I see, you'd probably feel better. I've learned a lot about how things are done, and they ARE getting done, just slower than we'd like. In some cases, politics slows things, (in many, many cases actually :)) in some cases, it actually helps. We're just now seeing how big the problems are, and new ones arise every day. But we're getting to them. It IS being handled. For example, my wife is an expert on NELAP (National Environmenal Laboratory Accreditation Program) which calls for all environmental labs to have standards which are higher than ISO 9000. This program is a federal government initiative, with states' assitance. If an environmental lab does not have this certification, it will be out of business within three years. Small steps, yes but important ones. It just takes time. Like I said, if you need to speak to real experts, let me know. I think if you could spend some time with one, it would be a real eye-opener. Feel better, love.
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